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That is exactly what one headline in London says! “Forget Billy Graham and Jimmy Swaggart – the most popular and influential pastor in the US is Joel Osteen. On the surface he is modest and quietly spoken, but his belief in the “prosperity gospel” is changing the way people pray.” Click here for the full article.
32 Responses to “Is Joel Osteen the new face of Christianity?”
Calvinism: The Baptist Bogeyman
Ed Stetzer writes a great article that describes how people within the SBC often use fear and scare tactics to promote their agenda. Click here for the full article.
More Elephants (ER2)
Tim Raymond of Credo Magazine writes, “By lifting up men with minimal theological commitments as examples to pastors, the Elephant Room is proclaiming, perhaps unwittingly, that a rigorous concern for sound doctrine is not essential to the pastoral office.” Click here for the full article.
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It has been about six years now since Joel Osteen hit the national seen. Why all the fuss? He does not claim nor is he SBC. Does he lean toward the “health, wealth, and prosperity gospel”? Yes, but that is his tradition/theology. Should we question what he teaches as compared to Scripture? Absolutely, and even sound the alarm, but I think we are critical of him because of his success and the fact that so many of our folks in our sbc pews are watching him on tv and buying his books. Is our motive doctrinal integrity or jealously over his incredible exposure and fast rocket to the top. How ever one feels about Osteen, it is at very least interesting that a college drop out pastors the largest church in America and that they are the only mega-church (maybe John Hagee in San Antonio) that is so racially intergrated.
Joel Osteen has learned to have faith in God. Read his first book. He wasn’t always so blessed. He is a servant of God. I think many people don’t like the WAY he serves. Frankly, it’s no one’s business how he serves God. There are so many different kinds of pastors, with different mannerisms and quirks, and you have to find one that fits you…if he doesn’t fit you, move on. I love Joel Osteen. I don’t agree with all that he says, but I agree that if you live for God, you follow His Commandments, you give Him your tithe, and you trust that He wants to bless you, then He will. I’ve seen it in my life. The Osteens have seen it in their lives as well.
. Mae: “Frankly, it’s no one’s business how he serves God”Are you really so blind?Men like him are called (By the BIBLE):. . .Wolves, because they pry on God’s people.. . . Springs without water, because they have nothing new to offer.. . .dogs returning to vomit, because they simply choke up the old worldly ways. . .sows returning to mud, because they do not preach a Gospel that rescues people from the clutches of this world.”There are so many different kinds of pastors, with different mannerisms and quirks, and you have to find one that fits you”Simply amazing. if people choose the prophet based on if they LIKE His message or not, who would listen to people like. . . JESUS?Mae, this man is taking God’s truth, mixing it with worldly health and wealth and happiness and calling that the Gospel. Look at Matthew 7, Jesus warned us these people would be coming. How can you fall for them now that they are here?
David Williams,The reason for my outspoken position against Joel Osteen has nothing to do with his success, popularity, or how much money he makes. In fact, many men of God through history have been “successful” and wealthy. However, the main issue with Joel Osteen in my opinion is his troublesome doctrine. Not only does he embrace the “Word Faith” movement, but he has also denied the exclusivity of Christ on national television (you can see that clip by clicking on the “video” button on the top menu). To deny the exclusivity of Christ is to deny the gospel itself.God Bless,Josh Buice
David,Where is Joel Osteen mixing God’s truth with a worldly message?
Mae,On Larry King, Joel osteen said that he did NOT believe Jesus was the ONLY way to God. that was a denial of the foundational truth of Chrstiainity.Mae, Osteen’s message is MAN centered, not God centered.Further, he is a part of the “word of faith” movement. This puts him legue with the likes of: Benny Hinn, Paul Crouch and Kenneth Copeland.Osteen said: I believe one of the main ways that we grow in favor is by declaring. It’s not enough to just read it. It’s not enough to just believe it. You’ve got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. One of the primary ways we release our faith is through our words. There is a divine connection between you declaring God’s favor and seeing God’s favor manifested in your life. And some of you are doing your best to please the Lord. You are living a holy consecrated life, but you’re not really experiencing God’s supernatural favor. And it’s simply because you’re not declaring it. You’ve got to give life to your faith by speaking it out.” http://www.theopedia.com/Joel_OsteenOsteen is also quotes as saying: “You can cancel out God’s best plan by speaking negative words”
Asked if Mormonism is a true religion, Osteen said yes!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFcVLs__5hw&feature=related
All that you quoted by Osteen, I agree with to a certain extent.My dad was saved after a Kenneth Copeland crusade.My sister has been super-naturally blessed–financial miracles have happened–after she sent her name to Benny Hinn. He said if you need a financial blessing, send me your name and I will pray over you. She did and he did, and literally the MIRACLES cannot be numbered.These men have no power–but claiming God’s blessings over your life is BIblical. Asking and having faith that you will receive is very Biblical. Knowing that God loves you enough to give you whatever you need and more is very Biblical.And, don’t under estimate the power of negative words. Negative words are a direct reflection of a negative spirit. Jesus doesn’t live in negativity, and if you’re his child, a recipient of the greatest gift ever given–eternal life with a Loving Savior–put your negativity away! There should be no room for it in your life.I appreciate Joel Osteen.
Mae,Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn and Kenneth Hagan have been teaching that Jesus did not bear sin, he became on in nature with Satan. Please read these quotes carefully (I got them out of Christianity in Crisis and presented them recently at a wednesday night service as we studied 2 Peter):Benny Hinn said claimed the Holy Spirit once told him:“Ladies and gentlemen, the serpent is a symbol of Satan. Jesus Christ knew the only way he would stop Satan is by becoming one in nature with him. Yous ay, what did you say? What blasphemy is this? No, you hear this! He did not take my sin; he became my sin. Sin is the nature of hell. Sin is what made Satan, it was sin that made Satan. Jesus said, I’ll be sin! I’ll go to the lowest place! I’ll go to the origin of it! I won’t just take part in it, I’ll be the totality of it! When jesus became sin, sir, He took it from A to Z and said, No more! Think about this: He became death, so dying man can live. He became sin, so sinners can be righteous in him. He became one with the nature of Satan, so all those who had the nature of Satan can partake in the nature of God.” (The Benny Hinn program, TBN, Dec. 15, 1990. Message titled: The Person of Jesus.Kenneth Hagan: “Spiritual death means something more than separation from God. Spiritual death also means having satan’s nature.”Sermon, 1981 The name of Jesus.Kenneth Copeland: “The righteousness of God was made to be sin. He accepted the sin nature of satan in his own spirit. And at the moment that he did so, he cried My God my God why hast thou forsaken me? You don’t know what happened at the cross? Why do you think Moses, upon insturctin of God, raised the serpent upon that pole instead of a lamb? That used to bug me. I said, why in the world would you want to put a snake up there – the sign of Satan? Why didn’t you put a lamb on that ple? And the Lrod said, Because it was a sign of Satan that was hanging on the cross. He said, I accepted in my own spirit spiritual death and the light was turned off.” (Kenneth Copeland, “What hapepned from the Cross to the Throne”, 1990)I’m glad your father was saved. that adds no credibility to a persons ministry. Judas baptized! Paul said that it is not he who plants or he who waters, but God who makes it grow. Give the Holy Spirit credit for your fathers leading to salvation, not a mortal man.
Just a quick reminder and affirmation David…Osteen denies Jesus is the only way to salvation. This is total denial of the Gospel. Done deal.On Hinn – The Bible speaks of real miracles…dead man rises, blind man sees, leper cleansed. Once my car started after going through a deep puddle and I told my wife it was a miracle. You get the picture. Hinn is about marginal/miniscule miracles. Like the Prosperity Gospel? Study Gottschalk of Orbais… great life? Maybe not.Remember from your studies that the Gnostics/Mystics despised the “bloody Old Testament” God and reject the notion atonement for sin (or for that matter anything physical). Atonement, the bloody nature of sacrifice for sin, and the death that surrounded sin was so much a stumbling block to them that they considered all flesh “evil” and the spirit world good, as you are aware. In doing so, they compromised the humanity of Jesus, or even worse, deny/pollute his divinity. Marcion you may recall went so far as to declare God and Satan to be the same being. The root of the Post Modern church can be traced back to Montanism, a frightening departure from Orthodoxy. “I feel it’s right, therefore it’s right”. Rampant hypocrisy and judgement of others as Unholy on an unbiblical basis. “I think you’re negative” (a negative thought without understanding him/herself as originating a negative thought). This requires God’s enlightenment, a submissive spirit, and loyalty to scripture to overcome.As you also know the mystics were ever moving beyond scripture, seeking enlightenment from the spiritual world. Ever declaring new revelation. They are not bound to scripture, rejecting the vast majority of scripture as unsophisticated and simplistic. Underpinning this notion is the idea that I am good because I “get it” and others don’t.The kingpin of Gnosticism was salvation by human knowledge. We watch these men (and women) deny key doctrine (as has been outlined above), yet sinful man declares himself righteous in his own eyes. As a result “positiveness” (absence of “negativeness”), “non judgementalism”, and spiritual enlightenment become the basis for salvation.We are all sinners and must cease justifying ourselves. We must be obedient to God’s Word, which explicitly states that there is only one way to God, Jesus Christ. We bring only sin, He brings grace.
Mark,very interesting. You are right, the idea is that we are “good” because we “get it” and others don’t. But Osteen and the modern movement goes further than old Gnosticism, saying that EVERYONE is basically good. Not just the enlightened.blessings
Continually amazed here.
Mae,I actually gave you the quotes. What more do you need to turn away from these false prophets?
LOVE this quote…really does put things into perspective as to what our priorities in teaching should be…”Dad’s looking @ porn Mom’s on pills for depression Daughter’s pregnant Son’s on drugs & we’re teaching who the Jebusites are?” -RickWarren
Mae,I think the Apostle Paul got it right when he said, “Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.”Romans 16:17How can you “mark” someone by ignoring their teaching?
Mae,Was your quote evena full sentense? It certainly does not express Warren’s doctrinal position, it’s just verbal junk when pulled out of context like that.Mae, the prosperity Gospel is not the Gospel! It’s a false Gospel, thus the reason it needs an additional name other than simply: “The Gospel.” paul said that even if an angel, and pretty Joel Osteen looks and sounds very angelic, should preach a gospel other than the true Gospel, let him be. . . well, you check the Greek on what Paul said there.In the last days there will be false prophets. you are choosing to follow these teachers. You should flee from them.
David–Funny how you have the audacity to ask Mae if her quote was a full sentense when you can’t even spell the word, use incorrect grammar continually and don’t even use capital letters! Mae has never said that she agress with everything Mr. Osteen says or that she is a follower of his. You need to get a clue! You have a problem with Mae because she is a woman and she doesn’t claim to be able to exegise Scripure the way you do. It’s interesting to me that you can properly exegise Scripture, but you are unable to write a sentence worth reading.By the way, MORMONISM IS A TRUE RELIGION! It has nothing to do with a relationship wth our Saviour. If you are a true believer, you will shun religion just as Jesus did. Get over yourself and trying to prove someone else is wrong or bad. Focus on showing non-believers the way to a relationship with the Father. That’s your only job as a believer.
Christine,I am glad your concern is for grammer and spelling.When did religion become bad? the Bible calls it “pure” and “faultless.” James 1:27that so many of you have been taken in by Josel Osteen, Mormon’s and the Word of Faith movement is evidence of todays pluralism.You said, “Get over yourself and trying to prove someone else is wrong or bad.” The problem is that the Pastor Osteen Shepherds the largest church in America. He is watched by many in all of our church’s. Speaking truth about a false teacher is not holding on to some petty disagreement. The Gospel itself is at stake.You said, “Focus on showing non-believers the way to a relationship with the Father. That’s your only job as a believer.” what Bible are you reading? And why do you assume that I’m not sharing the Gospel?”For there are many rebellious people, mere talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision group. 11 They must be silenced, because they are ruining whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach — and that for the sake of dishonest gain.” Titus 1:10-112 Peter 2:1-32:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.NIVYou said, “You have a problem with Mae because she is a woman and she doesn’t claim to be able to exegise Scripure the way you do.” What are you talking about?I never said I had a problem with Mae because she’s a woman. Are you so hyperly women’s liberation that you immediately assume any disagreement must be because of gender?I do not believe I have ever used the word “exegesis” Yet you used it several times to attack me. I do not ask for a person to have a great ability to do Biblical exposition. I do think believers should be able to discern God’s Word.
You have a problem with Mae because she is a womanChristine,what would make you say something like that?
David-I am so far from the women’s liberation movement it isn’t even funny. Your attitude towards Mae and me is a very different tone than the one that you use with the male posters on this site. My point about your spelling and grammar is that you asked Mae if that was even a sentence when you yourself obviously have issues in that area. Religion is not what Christ came to bring us. He brought us a relationship. Period.
Chistine -You are posting on a theological blog. And there are two pastors that I know of here, maybe more. Each represents a wealth of Bible training and knowledge, and pours over God’s Word each week. These men are required to rightly divide the Word of Truth, and are accountable to God (and their congregations) for what they preach. They are following scriptural requirements for being pastors/elders. Please, I would humbly like to offer two things for you to consider, in all sincerity and love.First – could I ask that you try very hard to keep your feeling in perspective as “of a less reliable disposition”, and to use scripture to make your points. This will get you the respect and affirmation you desire if you use this approach, and throughout history it has been no different. Let me offer an example. If I am and engineer, and a committee of senior engineers asks me to justify my design before construction… what might be the reaction if I said “I just feel it will work” or ” I’m OK with it, let’s go build!”?I mean you no offense at all, but on doctrine I really do not care how you feel. I care what scripture says.Second – please remember that as Christians we are the body of Christ and must suffer the sinful aspects of each other’s personalites. I am not saying that anyone here has sinned in any specific way, just that we must strive to love each other. On Biblical truth however, we must stand our ground without compromise.If there is but one mediator between God and man, and any other Gospel is a false Gospel, then how are we to treat those who distort and contradict the Word of God. Please (!) use your BIble to respond.It is very simple and clear heresy to say that we can be saved “without Christ”. This is what Mr. Osteen says.
Mark, you are probably the most arrogant person I have ever come in contact with, Here’s a Scripture verse about that…Pride comes before a fall…
Mark is rude AND arrogant. It would be one thing if you truly WERE saying those things in love, as you claim, but you are not. You are condescending and demeaning, simply because of what my anatomy is. Shame on you.
Ladies – for the sake of the Gospel of Jesus Christ our Lord, and for His glory alone, let’s bear one another with humility and patience. Satan is the accuser of the brethren…please leave that job to him.Ephesians 4:1-61 I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, 2 with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, 3 endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
You know what, Mark, You are simply incredible! I confront you with your bad behavior and you say I am doing the work of Satan! That is just unbelievable! Your tone is offensive. You are much like the man in the book of James who is confronted with the truth and goes away unchanged. You don’t even take my words into account because I am a woman. That is really sad. Contrary to popular belief I just might have something to say that just might be relevant to this or any other discussion. You and men like you are exactly the reason that so many times I have said that I won’t come back to this site. I guess I need to stick by that. This is ridiculous.
Guys and Gals,Enough already! As the writer of this blog – the tone and response of the posts are simply not spiritually sanctifying. Please try to disagree in a more light fashion rather than slinging mud at one another. Seek to have spiritually profitable discussions rather than the opposite. Every word you type on this blog – seek the glory of God.In Christ,Pastor Josh Buice
josh,it always surprises me which discussions and topics you choose to chime in on…and which you choose NOT to chime in on…
Mae,I have been extremely busy with ministry lately and unable to read every response on my blog. This morning, I have been looking back over the latest comments and I was troubled to see the tone of the responses. That includes several people – not directed at one specific individual.If you would like to know my position on anything – you have the freedom to do so.God bless!
Mae and Christine,I cannot think fo a time you were attacked because of your womanhood. Support (or favor) of Joel Osteen — and Word of Faith teachers in particular — is my concern.I preached yesterday from Matthew 7, about False prophets. We’re going through the book of Matthew on Sunday morning. You know, not a single person came to me and said, “Pastor, you attacked my womanhood.” None! Can you believe it?And, a few weeks ago as went through 2 Peter on Wednesday night, I also talked about false teachers. Again, believe it or not, no one suddenly thought they were being attacked because they were a woman. And at the Wednesday service, it was mostly women. And some of them had been supportive of Mr. Osteen — until I read the quotes.Might we stay focused on Scripture?
I never said you used Scripture to atack my “womanhood.” Your attitude towards me is what is so offensive. I actually apologize for confronting you at all. It is very clear that you are not listening to what I have been trying to say. That’s ok. One day this whole mess will be straightened out by the Father and boy will you be surprised!!!!!!!
So, what did I say that was so offensive to you? The statement that we should reject Joel Osteen ofends you — or your womanhood? Or both?
I don’t know to whom exactly I’m addressing this to, so to whoever:Lots of people read these blogs that you never realize are there. Christian witnesses are given, positively or negatively, by attitudes and words. So, be careful!To the women:Being a woman myself and thereby part of your species, I feel like chiming in. The attitude of striving that I pick up from your words is alarming. I think I understand where you might be coming from, but I’m sure you probably won’t see it that way.Women who are motivated by a sincere desire to serve God in ways that fall into teaching his word or speaking his word get confused by their roles. Speaking for myself, as a young person growing up in the Southern Baptist denomination, which stressed evangelism and personal relationship, and pursuing those with all of my being, I let go of a very important aspect of life with God — sovereignty. Without realizing it, I grew in some areas and not in others. I lost site of the fact that God holds the future, he has the right to tell me or any other member of the human race, what our specific roles are.(I do believe women do have some place in the role of teaching, although not as pastors.) I strove incorrectly to win the prize. I forgot that God is in complete and utter control of this world. All plans are God’s, and all things happen on his timetable — not mine! I can’t change anything — I can only fall into his plan for me and strive to cooperate with him in the quest to become as Christ — fruits of the spirit. That is the greatest witness a lost world will ever receive!Before, the ordinary things of life seemed awfully boring. I wanted to do bigger things. I didn’t want to live the life I saw people older than me living — boring! Not a man who is called into ministry, before he has matured, doesn’t think that he will be the next Billy Graham. That can happen to women also. It is called maturing, and it comes from a whole, whole lot of hard, hard work. It’s the kind of maturing that can put a person in a nursing home with a song in their heart, because this is where God placed them to be.We are going to die and go to heaven, and what do we want our rewards to be based upon. Striving, striving, striving, or cooperating with God. On that day, we will wish we had cooperated. The best work I have ever seen God do is when I said my peace, then got of the way, quit trying to strive or control, and let God work. The key is — let God work! This is his plan and his purpose, his working out. I want the rewards of God — not the praise of man! Or my own sense of accomplishment.Fighting God is counter-productive! And if you can’t at least go to God and ask him to show you where you might have picked up the wrong information or been influenced by the wrong people, then you are more interested in what you think than in what God thinks.This input comes from one who hasn’t always been successful in how she viewed her service to God. So, please do not be offended by me. I say this to be helpful, because I see in you a kindred spirit.In Christ,