Dr. Vines,
I pastor in Douglasville, Ga – not far from Carrollton and I remember growing up hearing you preach in camp meeting events. I consider you one of my preaching heroes. I still have a letter you wrote me just before I went off to study at seminary – it was requested by my wife who wanted you to write me some words of wisdom as I prepared to leave home for the journey of ministry. I have learned much from you and appreciate your dedication to the Word and your commitment to the Conservative Resurgence of the SBC. I have benefited greatly from your sacrifice and commitment! I would go to war with you and gladly labor alongside you for the sake of Christ. I consider you a brother and a faithful soldier!
While I kicked against the pricks all through seminary and through my earlier years of preaching regarding these doctrines often labeled as “Calvinism” – I now embrace them within the framework of an accurate dictionary. I welcome a conversation of soteriology over an open Bible, but I’m concerned by the way that we’re having this present conversation. I agree – let’s talk about it – but it seems a bit skewed if you ask me. This article on soteriology titled, “A Statement of the Traditional Southern Baptist Understanding of God’s Plan of Salvation” has the aroma of division rather than the aroma of love. I take issue with the statement drafted by Dr. Hankins on the following basis:
- We already have a sufficient doctrinal statement on soteriology – the Baptist Faith & Message 2000. Why do we need to draft another one and then ask people to affirm it?
- The article on soteriology contradicts the BF&M in several ways, which has drawn the label of semi-Pelagian. Is that the goal? I don’t think so, but the language appears more aligned with a semi-Pelagian view rather than the BF&M.
- The article is being labeled as a “movement” on SBCToday.com. It this a movement? If so, what is it moving toward? What is it moving away from?
Furthermore, I take issue with the following statement in your blog post. You wrote, “And I pray we will be willing to join hearts and hands with those who may view theological matters somewhat differently than we do, within the framework of our BF&M.” But – that isn’t what is being done with the article drafted by Dr. Hankins and signed by you. We are now operating outside of the BF&M with our discussion on soteriology. While that is extremely healthy as we grow, mature, and challenge one another on our theological positions, it’s not helpful to bring an exterior document on soteriology into the life of the SBC and ask people to join the “movement.” You don’t see Dr. Albert Mohler or Dr. Mark Dever doing that with the statements of affirmation and denial from the T4G conference. They obviously embrace those statements, but they aren’t bringing them into the life of the SBC and creating controversy.
Last of all, I agree with you that some Calvinists are overly aggressive. I have seen it myself – in person. However, I see the same spirit of divisiveness and aggression in this article by Dr. Hankins. I too want to work together to reach the nations with the gospel – with Reformed and less Reformed people than myself. I think that’s a healthy thing! However, when I heard you preach at the Georgia Baptist Convention this past year, you said the following:
“Should the SBC move toward five-point Calvinism it will be a move away from, not toward, the gospel.”
That statement alone is extremely divisive, aggressive, and leads people who are less mature than yourself to interpret your words to mean that a 5-point Calvinist doesn’t believe the true gospel and should be considered a heretic.
That’s a problem! Some people really believe that. I don’t think you do. However, this article by Dr. Hankins that you have attached your name to stokes the fires of aggression among those who want to go on a “witch hunt” for Calvinists in the SBC. We need bridge builders and we need to run to the nations with the good news that Jesus saves! I plead with you to help stop those with the heresy sword raised and prepared to do unalterable damage to the SBC that you long labored to save. You once worked with W.A. Criswell to do great things – step up to the plate once again for the glory of King Jesus. My generation of SBC pastors that follow in your footsteps need clarity, love, unity, and bridges. This “movement” will not accomplish that need.
“There is but one God, and they that serve Him should be one. There is nothing that would render the true religion more lovely, or make more proselytes to it, than to see the professors of it tied together with the heart-strings of love.” – Thomas Watson (A Puritan Golden Treasury, 304)
Your brother in Christ,
Pastor Josh Buice
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3 Responses to “A Response to Dr. Jerry Vines”
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- Statement on “Traditional” SBC Soteriology « CredoCovenant - [...] Pastor Josh Buice responds to Dr. Vines’ first article here. [...]
Vines wrote: “I have no desire that any Calvinist be unwelcome in the SBC. I do desire that we can live together as brothers, openly and lovingly affirming our theological positions without trying to force them upon others who take another view.”
How can he write that with a clear conscience considering the facts that:
1. This document was drafted in the first place.
2. This document bears the title it does.
3. This document was put forth as something to be not merely read but SIGNED by SBC’ers.
I agree with your stance, Josh, that the BF&M2000 is enough – and clear enough at that. While the “New Calvinists” are being blamed as “hostile, militant and aggressive,” it appears that those placing that blame have drawn “first blood” with this very document and their request it be signed… an act unlike any I’ve ever heard coming from the “New Calvinist” camp.
This was not an act to begin a discussion. It was an act to draw a conclusion… and a new one for Baptists, at that.
Scott – I agree. I want unity and a spirit of cooperation within the SBC for the purpose of missions. A big misconception among those outside of the SBC is that they control our churches. In reality, the SBC has nothing to do with what we do on our church level. We simply choose to be SBC for the purpose of accomplishing missions. It’s precisely this behavior that causes many pastors to disassociate themselves with the SBC. That would be a sure tragedy if all pastors who embrace the doctrines of grace walked away because they would rather do missions, evangelism, and church planting with groups who are more interested in that than fighting brothers! Sure – creeds and doctrinal statements matter – but we have not formally agreed to engage in the discussion of our BF&M. Instead – we have been blasted with a movement drafted behind the scenes and then released just days before the annual SBC. Calculated attack – not the heart of cooperation.
Josh, I, too, was greatly impacted by Dr. Vines, years ago, (and, I, too, married my childhood sweetheart, some 35 years ago). Yet, it is distressing that he would jump into the forefront in defending a document that is indefensible. I’ve spent about 50 years in SBC Churches and have frequently been struck by the herd of Elephants in Baptist Sanctuaries that run contrary to an even casual reading of God’s inspired Word. Why select just this one? We’ve got a plethora of SBC’er’s ashamed of their name, if not their heritage, in their desire to scrap it all to be known as something that none of us can know if we’ve achieved, or not – the very prestigious moniker of ‘Great Commission Baptists’. I believe this to be at the heart of the current attack on supporters of God’s Sovereignty. I believe these to be the same individuals pushing for large numbers, expensive theatres, & screen-fed “campuses”, while they emphasize Mathew 28:19, at the exclusion of Verse 20 – which is being done at our peril. This very exclusion of Verse 20 of Mathew 28 is leading to our virtual trampling by the multitude of Elephants in our Congregations, as demonstrated by the lack of Church Discipline, rampant immorality in the membership, levels of divorce equal to societal levels, still having a need for Milk instead of the Meat of the Word, etc., etc., etc.
I had never heard of your Ministry before your response. But, I sincerely thank you for your brilliant, and very loving response to this challenging issue, as well as your willingness to place your neck on the chopping block that the ‘Sword of the Lord’ has placed before us.
Because He Lives….
Jim Curlin
Licensed SBC Minister