OFFICIAL: Westboro Baptist Church Interview – Part II

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After witnessing to Westboro Baptist Church in Indianapolis, I was left with a severely confused view of their position on the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Great Commission. Therefore, I contacted the Westboro Baptist group and requested an official interview regarding these issues. They agreed to the terms, and Part I was posted yesterday.  Today, the second part of the interview is posted.

The full interview consists of 29 questions regarding practical and theological issues. Due to the length of the interview, it has been broken up into two days. The first half of the interview was posted yesterday, and the second half is posted below. The remainder of the week will be dedicated to my response to their answers and positions.

WARNING: The response from Westboro does contain some cursing. The unedited version is a bit sloppy and does contain many passages of Scripture which were simply copied from a web version of the Bible. Therefore, in attempt to shorten the interview, I have cited the reference in most cases where the full chapter or large portion of Scripture was used. I will also provide a .pdf of the uncut version for your download at the conclusion of the interview.

Read Part I Here.

Download Unedited Sloppy Version Here.

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11. What do you believe is required for a person to enter Heaven when he or she dies?

RESPONSE: Not a bad question Josh – and you are not the first to ask – check out this answer by Paul and let us let it do for this discussion (and again, notice the persecutions on the ground and the delivering hand of our God! Our God delights in delivering his people and he will deliver us as well – stay tuned for that – it will be a thing that causes the ears of them that hear it to tingle!!) Note in this excellent passage – those perverts did like Doomed america did – they violated their own laws when they dealt with Paul, and Silas – just like you brutes did when you put us on trial for our religion! Psssstttt – think First Amendment! YIKES. Further, check out the little church that was in the House of Lydia! Lovely! You see Josh – God has the exclusive prerogative of who will believe and where he will chose to deposit his word – who are those vessels that will be vessels of mercy that will bring forth good fruit and serve God in truth! That all belongs to God. You must have missed the lesson of Korah. You better get to the bottom of that Josh because the prophets talk about it again and again – even down to Jude – the second to the last book of the Bible – they were still talking about Sodom and Korah and Balaam and so much more of the OLD TESTAMENT EVENTS!! Stop trying to act like the Old Testament has nothing to do with us! Oh – and read the rest of Acts 16 – you will find at the beginning of all this – it is all about their money!

Acts 16:20-40

12. What is your understanding of Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15; Luke 24:44-49; and Acts 1:8?

RESPONSE: Here is what I say to your arrogant butt about these words and the rest of the Bible! SHUT YOUR MOUTH and OBEY YOUR GOD! Stop looking for something that will advantage YOU and promote your ego and humble yourself under the mighty hand of God! You have NOT been sent Josh – but you run anyway! You will NEVER have the Holy Spirit anywhere near you because you won’t obey! Check out some of these OBEY verses:

Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.Exodus 16:28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.Leviticus 22:31 Therefore shall ye keep my commandments, and do them: I am the LORD.Leviticus 26:3 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore his statutes, and his commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, for ever.Deuteronomy 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!Deuteronomy 6:2 That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son’s son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.Deuteronomy 6:17 Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;Deuteronomy 7:11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.Deuteronomy 8:2 And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no.Deuteronomy 8:6 Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.Deuteronomy 10:13 To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?Deuteronomy 11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.Deuteronomy 11:8 Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;Deuteronomy 11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;Deuteronomy 13:4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.Deuteronomy 13:18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.Deuteronomy 19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:Deuteronomy 26:17 Thou hast avouched the LORD this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice:Deuteronomy 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;Deuteronomy 27:1 And Moses with the elders of Israel commanded the people, saying, Keep all the commandments which I command you this day.Deuteronomy 28:9 The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.Deuteronomy 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee:Deuteronomy 30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.Deuteronomy 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.Joshua 22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.1Kings 2:3 And keep the charge of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and his testimonies, as it is written in the law of Moses, that thou mayest prosper in all that thou doest, and whithersoever thou turnest thyself:1Kings 3:14 And if thou wilt walk in my ways, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as thy father David did walk, then I will lengthen thy days.1Kings 6:12 Concerning this house which thou art in building, if thou wilt walk in my statutes, and execute my judgments, and keep all my commandments to walk in them; then will I perform my word with thee, which I spake unto David thy father:1Kings 8:58 That he may incline our hearts unto him, to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, which he commanded our fathers.1Kings 8:61 Let your heart therefore be perfect with the LORD our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.1Kings 9:6 But if ye shall at all turn from following me, ye or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:1Kings 11:38 And it shall be, if thou wilt hearken unto all that I command thee, and wilt walk in my ways, and do that is right in my sight, to keep my statutes and my commandments, as David my servant did; that I will be with thee, and build thee a sure house, as I built for David, and will give Israel unto thee.2 Kings 17:13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.2 Kings 23:3 And the king stood by a pillar, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments and his testimonies and his statutes with all their heart and all their soul, to perform the words of this covenant that were written in this book. And all the people stood to the covenant.1 Chronicles 28:8 Now therefore in the sight of all Israel the congregation of the LORD, and in the audience of our God, keep and seek for all the commandments of the LORD your God: that ye may possess this good land, and leave it for an inheritance for your children after you for ever.1 Chronicles 29:19 And give unto Solomon my son a perfect heart, to keep thy commandments, thy testimonies, and thy statutes, and to do all these things, and to build the palace, for the which I have made provision.2 Chronicles 34:31 And the king stood in his place, and made a covenant before the LORD, to walk after the LORD, and to keep his commandments, and his testimonies, and his statutes, with all his heart, and with all his soul, to perform the words of the covenant which are written in this book.Nehemiah 1:9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.Psalm 78:7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:Psalm 89:31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;Psalm 103:18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.Psalm 119:60 I made haste, and delayed not to keep thy commandments.Psalm 119:115 Depart from me, ye evildoers: for I will keep the commandments of my God.Proverbs 3:1 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments:Proverbs 4:4 He taught me also, and said unto me, Let thine heart retain my words: keep my commandments, and live.Proverbs 7:1 My son, keep my words, and lay up my commandments with thee.Proverbs 7:2 Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.Daniel 9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.1 John 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.Re 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Get your rebel mind around all those passages AND their context and then talk about that for a while and put away all your fluffy stuff!

13. Is Westboro Baptist Church the only true Church of God?

RESPONSE: I don’t know the answer to this question, as I don’t know about all the world – but as our preachments reach the ears of the whole world, we hear from this generation – these matters are NOT being done in a corner, so as the days pass and the words continue to drop like dew all over the world, if there is another church at this hour, we will hear from them. If the Lord tarries till next year, ask me this again. Meanwhile, the French will be here this next weekend to take the words and publish them again in their country!

14. Have you ever witnessed one person repent and turn to God through Jesus Christ as a result of your street corner messages of hate?

RESPONSE: YIKES – Josh – did you just call the faithful preaching of the Word of God hate? YIKES! You do that sin against your own soul.

15. Do you believe the God of the Old Testament is the same God of the New Testament?

RESPONSE: Josh – you dumb a__! Did you really ask that question? Of course there is only ONE GOD! Shut up your goofy mouth Josh! Let me help you with just one little puddle of words to get your blind back-side back on track! You better read EVERY WORD of EVERY CHAPTER that contains the following verses. Check it out now:

Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.1Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

16. Do you believe in divine acts of miracles by God?

RESPONSE: Yes Josh – God does miracles. That would be miracles 101 at Golden Candlestick University.

17. What is your understanding of Gospel missions?

RESPONSE: Stop majoring in the minors Josh – we have our ministry – we received it from our God – we jealously guard it! Our mission is to blind your eyes, stop up your ears and harden your dark, evil hearts! I love here ministry!

18. Who is responsible for sin in this world?

RESPONSE: Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

OBEY YOUR GOD JOSH, anything less than that is your sin – and you do that sin against your own soul. Further, after this sorry bit of words from you Josh, try not to talk. You are not acceptable to speak in public or out loud at all, unless it is in front of a mirror wherein you look at yourself and say over and over again – I will not speak out loud in public because I have caused so many to err from the truth. Repeat that over and over again, otherwise, don’t talk at all!

19. Who is the cure for evil and sin in this world?

RESPONSE: I have to tell you Josh – a frontal lobotomy might be a cure for your evil and sin – either that or I’m afraid that it might take death and hell to cure you of all your foolish and unlearned questions.

20. Do you believe that a homosexual can be saved? If so, how?

RESPONSE: You need to read these words from these two passages and then answer this question for yourself!

Before you read, get this framework: God GAVE THEM UP to that filth! GOD is the ONLY SOURCE THAT CAN DRAW THEM TO CHRIST! Do you see a practical problem with this whole “I can win that perverts soul to Christ!” thing Josh?

Romans 1:18-32John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

21. How does your message of hate move homosexuals toward repentance to a Holy and righteous God?

RESPONSE: Again with calling the Word of God hate! YIKES! Look dummy – it is NOT your job to worry about how the faithfully reported Word of God lands upon the ears of the hearer! God controls the hearts of men – so how they receive the Word is HIS prerogative! So get your stupid mitts off of that arena!

22. What is your goal in your messages of hatred at the funeral of dead soldiers?

RESPONSE: We publish the Gospel of Peace – it is life and health to this nation – it is marrow to your bones – if you will hear and heed this warning, your own never-dying soul will benefit – but if not – Destruction, Death and Hell await you! Period!

23. If you could sum up the mission of Westboro Baptist Church in one word, what would it be?

RESPONSE: Forget that one word nonsense. We faithfully preach the Word of God to this adulterous and sinful generation of rebels against their God with NO cause!

24. God has revealed Himself in two basic ways to His creation. The first is through general revelation. That is through the world that God created and the systems that are put into place by God. The second type of revelation is contained in a Book – The Bible. The completed Word reveals the love of God in Jesus Christ and His atoning death upon the cross for sinners. The question is — Is general revelation capable of bringing a person to salvation?

RESPONSE: First – your statement leaves out ONE IMPORTANT ELEMENT – REPENT!! There is NO forgiveness without repentance! The Love of God is reserved for the penitent! NOT the rebels that will live in sin and make it their vocation and lie on God, etc, etc! STOP LYING ON GOD JOSH!

Romans 1 answers your question about what the so-called general revelation does – check it out now:

Romans 1:19-20

Read that again and again till you wrap your rebel brain around it Josh – that revealed evidence of God – his creation and all things that you see before your rebel eyes makes you without excuse for denying the sovereignty of God and his POWER!

25. Since you had signs at the Southern Baptist Convention in Indianapolis calling SBC pastors liars, that would include me. Therefore, on what basis do you consider me a liar?RESPONSE: I’m so glad you asked that question Josh. I have pointed out some of your lies above – how do you brutes lie – let me take a run at this and try not to wear myself slick – it is after all, the middle of the night.

1. You liars say that you have a free will.2. You liars say that God loves everyone.3. You liars say that you can win souls to Christ.4. You liars say that you can accept Christ as your own personal Savior.5. You liars deny the deity of God!

Need I go on? Other than this Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?

26. How does your message of hate move a man like myself to repent – if what you say is true?

RESPONSE: What you just did was confirm the words of the prophet Isaiah (I love Isaiah – our #5 child is Isaiah J) –

Isaiah 53:1-3

Here it is Josh – if God does not have mercy upon you – for he hath mercy upon WHOM HE WILL AND WHOM HE WILL, HE HARDENS! – you will NEVER believe and repent! That is NOT my problem and NOT my interest. Check out these words of David which I love:

Psalm 131:1-3

You see Josh – we don’t own salvation – and some matters are not crystal clear to me – so I don’t worry about those matters. Because the secret things belong to the Lord our God – but the revealed things belong to us and our children FOREVER, so that we can OBEY our God! OBEY OUR GOD Josh! Forget the things you don’t fully understand! If you will OBEY the crystal clear things, and seek God from a pure heart in truth, he will open the eyes of your understanding and give you wisdom and knowledge and understanding! BUT JOSH – the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and understanding. If you have reduced God to Mr. Peanut the hapless, helpless lump that is weeping over your rebellion, instead of the consuming FIRE that is kicking your rebel a__, you are NOT seeking God from a pure heart – NO – you seek him from a raised fist and your flipper finger out!

Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

If God does not open your eyes, they will NEVER BE OPEN! Shut your mouth and read Romans 9.

At the end of the day, I don’t give a rat’s backside if you repent or not! THAT IS NOT MY BUSINESS!

27. Is there anyone or any group who is beyond the reach of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

RESPONSE: WHAT??! What did you say dummy?

28. What is your official position on the last days (eschatology)?

RESPONSE: I answered this above! If you would bother to read Matthew 24; Luke 17, 18 & 21 and Mark 13 – and you are not completely blind, you will see that we are in the very last days of all! It is simply lovely!

While you are reading some scary things for you, check out Psalm 149 – it is that part where our God has AGAIN promised his faithful servants that we will be permitted to bind your rebel butts with chains and fetters of iron. You see Josh, we slipped around this nation for 18 years, every single day, faithfully telling you what your God requires of you and you mocked and scoffed and we sewed and sewed this precious seed. NOW – you are bound – and it is with chains and fetters of iron. Pursuant to Psalm 78, God sent us forth, evil angles (not evil people, but delivering the message of evil that God intends toward you) so that today, our faithful God is pouring out his wrath, pursuant to our words of warning. You KNOW our faithful God would not send us forth all these long years to warn and NEVER confirm our words! Had you only bothered to read 2 Chronicles 36:11 to 16 or 17 or more, you would have found the blueprint for your destruction that is upon you at this hour! YIKES!

29. What is your official position on the Trinity?

RESPONSE: God in three persons, blessed trinity! One God – triune!

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NOTE:  This interview was conducted after having an encounter with Westboro at the annual Southern Baptist Convention in 2008.

Pastor Josh Buice

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See Also:

OFFICIAL: Westboro Baptist Church Interview – Part I

OFFICIAL: Westboro Baptist Church Interview – Part II

RESPONSE #1: Westboro’s Gospel Error

RESPONSE #2: Westboro’s Great Commission Error

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63 Comments

  1. How can these people believe they are preaching what the word of God says. If you will notice, this person does not talk, at all about the Love of God. Only that God hates people. If God hated us, He would destroy us all and His creation. God wants us all to be happy and serve Him for His glory. I cannot believe these people, acutally say they are Baptists. I have not ever seen any Baptists act like that before or call you every name in the book, either. We should as Christians, pray for these people and their wrong way of portraying the gospel. This is exactly why we as Christians, are called hypocrites, because of people like this. The souls we could win for Christ, if we could ALL go out and share the gospel as it was written. Not, as we think (our own interpretation), it was written. May God continue to show mercy, grace and love to us all across this great nation!!

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  2. dana,it has nothing to do with calling themselves baptist–i’ve seen some baptists that act like little devils, are the worst kind of hypocrite you can imagine. at least these people are upfront with their hatred and gile…some “baptist Christians” are much more offensive and damaging to the cause of Christ because of their luke-warm, two faced nature. the word baptist has little to do with the spiritual condition of one’s heart. this group also calls themselves baptist after john the baptist and do not affiliate themselves with any convention or association.

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  3. Yes Dana – we speak about the hatred of God – it is covered 4 or 5 to one in the scriptures over the love of God. That is because the love of God is NOT available to you rebels. So when you have littered your landscape with lying false prophets that you DEMAND preach unto you smooth things and lies and a LOT of words about God loving everyone, WHY do you think we would address that. You freaks are NOT repentant. Words have definitions Dana – they mean something. Repent means you CHANGE YOUR MIND and you CHANGE YOUR CONDUCT! When you lie about God and then demand discussion about his love – YIKES! We don’t do that! We don’t and won’t become a partaker of your filthy sins and rebellion and disobedience and we won’t lie to you and comfort you with false hope. If you don’t repent, you are going to hell! PERIOD!Jude 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.If we can tell you the truth and that scares you into obedience, GOOD! You can read those words just like I can! If you think that passage above means to do something else, DO THAT! But little miss do-gooder Dana – RENDER AN OPINION on your DUTY TO GOD and then prepare to DEFEND your opinion, because you will have that chance when you stand before your God in the Great and Terrible Day of Judgment that is JUST ON THE HORIZON!Meanwhile, if you think that your statement that God is blessing this nation when you house is falling in all around you – YIKES! You are blinder than Stevie Wonder!!Meanwhile, we will continue to go forth and serve the Living and True God in TRUTH! He requires that of us! His name is Jealous (so we won’t lie about the cause of his deeds and assign the whirlwind that he sent to kick your rebel asses to your false goddess Mother Nature or anything else! God is KNOWN by the judgments that he executes and he is a consuming fire! God sent the fires to California where – HELLO – FAGS ARE MARRYING you dolt! THAT is HIS Glory! His name dark Dana is The Lord of Hosts, A Man of War! You are messing with and dumbing down the WRONG GOD!!Isa 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.Jer 30:23 Behold, the whirlwind of the LORD goeth forth with fury, a continuing whirlwind: it shall fall with pain upon the head of the wicked.Your best friend,Shirley Phelps-Roper6.24.08

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  4. Much as I find stuff about them fascinating (in a car wreck kind of way), I wonder if it’s better just to ignore them. They’ll never be convinced away from their views, but nor does anyone take them seriously or believe that they actually represent the views of Christianity. They’re just a circus freakshow to the world – people look in and gasp at the ugliness of it all.

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  5. ianmcn,i agree with you to an extent.yes we should love them, but until God sees fit to soften their hearts, i think “shaking the dust off” our feet is the best approach.they thrive on this sort of attention–they are like shock jocks on the radio.this is exactly what they want.

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  6. Does anyone else on this blog think that it’s kind of funny that Mrs. Phelps-Roper never answers a question. She just chooses to call names and make herself look ridiculous?George-Maybe I was too hard on you when you said that women should be silent in church. Maybe Mrs. Phelps-Roper is the perfect example of why we should.

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  7. Christine,Shirley refuses to answer many questions, and I will reveal that in my responses through the remainder of the week. I will post responses to the two interview segments tomorrow and Thursday.Regarding the silence of women in the church:1. This is not church.2. That is an incorrect interpretation of what Paul was saying. Make sure you notice that it was in connection to the use of specific spiritual gifts – not speaking in general.Rev. Josh Buice

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  8. Josh-Just a little joke to make George laugh.:) I do get it that women absolutely have a place in the church. However, I think it is terrible that Mrs. Phelps-Roper specifically said that they do not allow women to be pastors or preachers in their church, but on their official website, she calls herself a preacher. I think she may have even referred to herself as Reverend. Funny how she wants to call you a liar….

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  9. josh,will you please address george’s ignorance on women in the church? his nonsense is on your post re. witnessing to westboro. his comments were offensive, ignorant, and unChristlike. please correct him.

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  10. I fear for the safety of this woman’s children, and of the safety of other children in this cult. Does anyone know if there’s any sort of watchful eye on them by authorities?

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  11. …and I don’t mean their safety where people outside the cult are concerned. I mean safety from their own parents.

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  12. mrs t,in America, we are all free to indoctrinate our children however we choose.

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  13. My question to Mrs. Phelps-Roper is this:1)You say that you have no free will and you are not saved by your obedience, but by the full grace of God. (I’m assuming that you do struggle with sin.)2)You condemn those who you say don’t have free will either and is not part of the elect because God simply hasn’t chosen them and they are destined to hell.How do you reconcile these two things? It seems contradictory.Also, is your heart full of gratitute and joy that the God of the universe has shown so much grace on you, a sinner?

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  14. Mae, read between the lines of this woman’s vile hatred. If she’s able to call a stranger a dummy and an idiot and tell him he’s bound for hell, just imagine the horrors she’d be capable of behind closed doors in her own home. As a mother, I am terrified for these people’s children.

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  15. Perhaps I’ve misunderstood the postings from WBC, but on the surface it appears several of their answers follow the teachings of Calvinism…which is further reason to disregard any statements/actions by this group.

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  16. Mr. Kong,Their teachings / beliefs do not follow classic calvinism. They follow a strange hyper-hatred + hyper-calvinism put into a blender and spewed out in a destructive manner. Therefore, to accuse the folks who hold to calvinism to be related to this group would be a very harmful and unfair association.Rev. Josh Buice

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  17. King Kong, please point out exactly which of their answers follow Calvinism. It’s likely your information is a bit confused, at best.Your mind seems to be made up about those of us who are Reformed, though. I would ask you kindly, in any case, to please not lump us in with this wicked cult. Thank you.

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  18. Mrs. T,I agree with you! I wonder what type of family life they actually have!Josh

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  19. Josh, thanks. I don’t want to sound accusatory, but the proverbial hairs on the back of the neck of my mommy instinct stood on end while reading her original answers and comments here!

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  20. The correct terminology used should have been “Hyper-Calvinism” instead of the “Calvinism” term I used previously. I appologize for that error Mrs. T ;) At any rate…my understanding of “Hyper-Calvinism” is this — It emphasizes irresistible grace to such an extent that there is no real need to evangelize; furthermore, Christ may be offered only to the elect…which seems to follow their teachings.

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  21. Mr. Kong,I too would like to see how you connect what Westboro teaches and how they teach it to classic calvinism.

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  22. Mr.Kongdisregard my previous post.

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  23. Mrs. T-Do you think that Christians are the only people who can parent their children in a loving manner? I am not asking if Christians are the only ones who can raise their children the “right” way. I indoctrinate my children with my Christian beliefs just as I am sure you do. However, I don’t think that all people who do not teach their children the correct teachings about the Bible and Jesus are unfit parents. Just because a person is filled with wrong information that translates into a militant discourse doesn’t make them unfit as parents. In fact, their children will probably become very “good” citizens of their respective communities.

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  24. Sorry for the misunderstand Bill F, there was no edit function when I posted “Calvinism” instead of my intended “Hyper-Calvinism” response. I will, however, quote the response which inspired my post…[QUOTE]RESPONSE: I’m so glad you asked that question Josh. I have pointed out some of your lies above – how do you brutes lie – let me take a run at this and try not to wear myself slick – it is after all, the middle of the night.1. You liars say that you have a free will.2. You liars say that God loves everyone.3. You liars say that you can win souls to Christ.4. You liars say that you can accept Christ as your own personal Savior.5. You liars deny the deity of God![/QUOTE]

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  25. Christene,I think what Mrs. T is trying to say is that Children live by example and what kind of example is all this hatred. Where’s the LOVE. They don’t practice it for our Savior. We all try and raise our children in the way they should go and we are talking about our future church when we are talking about our children. I for one agree with Mrs. T. In reading some web article about these people they were abused most of their young lives, as was their Mother. This pastor, as he calls himself, is a Demon. Shirley herself said on an interview (youtube), that because her son left their church he was bound for HELL. Just because he chose not to worship the way she does. It’s sad, but true. We just need to pray for the Lost and Continue to pray for them every day.Darlene

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  26. Christine, well, if we want to get down to the bare-bones facts, then yes, Christians are the only people capable of parenting their children in a TRULY loving manner. They’re the only ones capable of pointing their children to Christ, Who is the greatest example possible of true love, devotion and tenderness. Non-Christian parents absolutely can and do have a measure of common grace, which keeps us all from giving into our basest sinful natures, but where the rubber meets the road, I’d bet TRUE Christian parents are nearly always better parents than everybody else.The point is a bit moot, though, because I don’t think it’s out of bounds to say that the members of Westboro “Baptist” aren’t even Christians at all. (I put Baptist in quotes because I hate how this Presbyterian girl’s Baptist brothers and sisters are lumped in with the likes of them, even in name only!)Also, loving, gentle teaching and direction are hardly the same things as indoctrination, which is synonymous in the dictionary with brainwashing and propaganda.—Darlene, yes, that’s exactly what I mean! We can never assume that children from controlling and/or abusive homes will “probably become very ‘good’ citizens of their respective communities” as Christine says, without a heavy dose of God’s grace and lots of therapy. My heart hurts for them.

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  27. neither can you assume that children brought up in Christian homes will be loved or become loving, or that they will be directed in the right manner. good grief.

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  28. Mae, please try to understand what we’re saying. If children are brought up by Bible-believing Christian parents who do their very best to follow what the Scriptures actually say about how to rear children, it’s very unlikely those children would go unloved. True Christian faith and a sincere effort to live it out naturally lead to calm, acceptance, order and love in any home. Why start from a place of doubt, as you seem intent to do?

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  29. i grew up in the church and i know quite a few families who did nothing but follow the Bible and their children grew up and hated their parents for being so rigid. it can go both ways. Christian’s aren’t the only people who can love their kids and teach their kids to love.

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  30. I’m sorry about your isolated experience, Mae. Doing “nothing but” following the Bible, without an extreme amount of love and tenderness is merely religion without grace.If you’ll go back and read what I said carefully and with an open mind, you might understand what I actually said You are contradicting me and arguing with me where it’s not necessary to do so. At any rate, I think our little exchange has reached its end.

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  31. Mrs. T-I hardly think that Mae’s experience is isolated and it is quite arrogant of you to assume that it is. Open your eyes! There are lots of people in prison whose parents took them to church. There are lots of pastors children who grow up with terrible attitudes about the church and believers.

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  32. Note To All:Since I can see this conversation getting more heated (as others in the past) – I want to make everyone aware of the terms of agreement on the “About DBG” page. Please make sure you can agree to these terms:DBG Terms of Agreement1. The Delivered By Grace website is not a debate site. Feel free to post your comments and involve yourself in the discussions, but make sure that all comments are posted in a manner that honors God. If disagreements occur on specific issues, the parties involved should communicate in a respectful way in order to honor God.2. Absolutely no advertisement links should be posted. The DBG site is not an open forum to advertise other sites or products.3. As of 6-23-08, a three strike rule will be applied to all users of the DBG site. If a person cannot communicate in a manner that is both respectful to God and others on the site, that specific person will be warned. After three warnings, the person will be banned from posting comments on the DBG website.4. Individuals from specific churches should refrain from carrying out “family” disagreements on the DBG site. The DBG site is not the place to hash out the business that pertains to specific local churches. That should be carried out in person – not through the internet.Thanks,Josh

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  33. mrs tread my comment with an open mind, please.i don’t have an isolated experience, i have a real one!

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  34. They never answered the question11. What do you believe is required for a person to enter Heaven when he or she dies?RESPONSE: Not a bad question Josh – and you are not the first to ask – check out this answer by Paul and let us let it do for this discussion (and again, notice the persecutions on the ground and the delivering hand of our God! Our God delights in delivering his people and he will deliver us as well – stay tuned for that – it will be a thing that causes the ears of them that hear it to tingle!!) Note in this excellent passage – those perverts did like Doomed america did – they violated their own laws when they dealt with Paul, and Silas – just like you brutes did when you put us on trial for our religion! Psssstttt – think First Amendment! YIKES. Further, check out the little church that was in the House of Lydia! Lovely! You see Josh – God has the exclusive prerogative of who will believe and where he will chose to deposit his word – who are those vessels that will be vessels of mercy that will bring forth good fruit and serve God in truth! That all belongs to God. You must have missed the lesson of Korah. You better get to the bottom of that Josh because the prophets talk about it again and again – even down to Jude – the second to the last book of the Bible – they were still talking about Sodom and Korah and Balaam and so much more of the OLD TESTAMENT EVENTS!! Stop trying to act like the Old Testament has nothing to do with us! Oh – and read the rest of Acts 16 – you will find at the beginning of all this – it is all about their money!The more I read I am convinced they are the devil their father because they do not answer questions in regard to a personal relationship with Christ not what it takes to go to heaven.

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  35. I wonder why she has a hyphenated last name of Phelps-Roper?

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  36. My question is this….When will we as Christians start being just vocal as Westwood Baptist with the love a Good News and the Gospel message? Why do we sit around criticizing Westwood instead of getting on fire for what the real truth is? Jesus was a celebrity in His day. People knew who He was and what He stood for. Why doesn’t the world know who we are? They certainly know who Westwood is.

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  37. I don’t hear hyper-Calvinism in her responses. I’m a Calvinist who knows the difference. Accuse her (them) of being extreme, but they are not hyper-Calvinists. What she is saying about evangelizes is it is her job to go out and spread the message, but it’s none of her business how people receive it, that is God’s work. She can plant the seed, but only God can make it grow. And having the biblical attitude that we are not to beg people to accept the truth of God’s Word is not hyper-Calvinism.Her reference to free will was in the context of effectual calling and regeneration by the Word and the Spirit, which also is straight Calvinism (i.e. straight apostolic biblical doctrine) and not hyper-Calvinism. Unless the father draw you…

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  38. Real Calvinists are the best evangelists, historically and just in terms of our understanding of biblical doctrine. We know the Word of God is the wildcard in it all, as God has made it, and because we don’t try to beg people or care about their feelings or get politically-correct so as not to assault their tender sensibilities and just give them the straight, living, quickening Word of God we are doing what God needs his elect to do. This subject was some of the best in the answers she gave to the questions. You’re not a prize God is trying to win over as you play hard-to-get or hold out for a deal more in line with how you consider things should be. You’re a polluted rebel, active rebel, dead in sin, in bondage to the devil’s kingdom and death and darkness, with nothing but your satanic vanity, worldly pride, and rebellious self-will to fill you with deadly illusion and delusion keeping you from seeing your own nothingness. You need to know this.

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  39. J. Smith,Shirley and the Westboro group do smack a message of hyper-Calvinism mixed with a hyper-hatred message.Note her responses below as they relate directly to hyper-Calvinism:17. What is your understanding of Gospel missions?RESPONSE: Stop majoring in the minors Josh – we have our ministry – we received it from our God – we jealously guard it! Our mission is to blind your eyes, stop up your ears and harden your dark, evil hearts! I love here ministry!26. How does your message of hate move a man like myself to repent – if what you say is true?RESPONSE: What you just did was confirm the words of the prophet Isaiah (I love Isaiah – our #5 child is Isaiah J) –Isaiah 53:1-3Here it is Josh – if God does not have mercy upon you – for he hath mercy upon WHOM HE WILL AND WHOM HE WILL, HE HARDENS! – you will NEVER believe and repent! That is NOT my problem and NOT my interest. Check out these words of David which I love:Psalm 131:1-3You see Josh – we don’t own salvation – and some matters are not crystal clear to me – so I don’t worry about those matters. Because the secret things belong to the Lord our God – but the revealed things belong to us and our children FOREVER, so that we can OBEY our God! OBEY OUR GOD Josh! Forget the things you don’t fully understand! If you will OBEY the crystal clear things, and seek God from a pure heart in truth, he will open the eyes of your understanding and give you wisdom and knowledge and understanding! BUT JOSH – the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and understanding. If you have reduced God to Mr. Peanut the hapless, helpless lump that is weeping over your rebellion, instead of the consuming FIRE that is kicking your rebel a__, you are NOT seeking God from a pure heart – NO – you seek him from a raised fist and your flipper finger out!Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.If God does not open your eyes, they will NEVER BE OPEN! Shut your mouth and read Romans 9.At the end of the day, I don’t give a rat’s backside if you repent or not! THAT IS NOT MY BUSINESS!===========================Yes, God is sovereign! But, Westboro is not! Therefore, to consider themselves the ones who have the right to extend mercy or “good news” to specific people is a strange hyper-hatred position. The hyper-Calvinism aspect comes into play when Shirley seems to have zero concern for those who are lost and refuses to tell people the true Gospel. If she knows the truth and holds it back on the basis of God’s sovereignty – she (they) is guilty of hyper-Calvinism.Josh Buice

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  40. She’s telling you to read the Word of God itself. She’s giving you the Word of God (she was upset you weren’t posting the words of each verse). This is what Calvinists do. It is not her that hardens, and she isn’t saying it is in her power, it is the Word of God. It quickens and it hardens. She is also saying repent. This is what the Word of God says. She’s putting the emphasis on the fact that you are not in control because you don’t usually hear that. She putting the emphasis on the fact that you are not a prize God needs to win over because you are told this everyday in various ways by Christians who don’t know their own smell. This is not hyper-Calvinism.

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  41. J. Smith,I disagree wholeheartedly.She says, “At the end of the day, I don’t give a rat’s backside if you repent or not! THAT IS NOT MY BUSINESS!” That is hyper-hatred + hyper-Calvinism mixed together in the Westboro blender.Why did Paul say:Rom. 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,Rom. 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.Rom. 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:This is coming from a man who knew about the sovereignty of God, but wept deeply for his people – those who were of Israel but were not Israel as he later says in verse six.No hyper-Calvinism with Paul, but you do see that with Shirley Phelps-Roper. She could care less about God’s Grace being extended to people. In fact, she said she does not give a “rats backside.”In one portion, she even said that “There is no good news for you liars.” Therefore, she is unwilling to tell the true Gospel – on the basis of God’s sovereignty – which smacks of hyper-Calvinism.Rev. Josh Buice

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  42. Well said.

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  43. She’s saying it doesn’t matter one way or another what she wants, and she’s saying it the way she is saying it to communicate to you that your feelings and need to be ‘coaxed’ into God’s camp is more of the garbage willful rebels to their creator engage in. She is expressing lack of patience with that (one thing about them is they are very much in an eschatological present-tense mode, but so was the apostle Paul, and this colors alot of the approach; the vast majority of Christians tend to not be anywhere near or conscious of this eschatological presence, so it is part of the zealous approach you find to be disturbing and crazy and etc.).None of this is hyper-Calvinism. It is unusual among Calvinists *definitely*, but it is not unusual or hyper to Calvinism itself.

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  44. J. Smith,We will have to agree to disagree on this subject.I see hyper-Calvinism + hyper-hatred all through her interview. Simply from a practical level of claiming to understand true Grace, but unwilling to tell the message of Grace on the basis of God’s sovereignty is hyper-Calvinism.God called us to share the true Gospel – Matthew 28:18-20; Acts 1:8. Therefore, what they are doing is holding back the truth from people and placing in their eyes and hearts a message that drives them away from God!Shirley clearly states that her goal is to “blind your eyes, stop up your ears and harden your dark, evil hearts!”Very strange doctrine . . .Rev. Josh Buice

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  45. I would have to agree with Pastor Josh on this one. Her doctrine, not God’s doctrine, is false to the core. We have a job, a “vocation wherewith we are called” two spread the good news of the Gospel,to all, at all times. I believe in the truth of Word and that Calvin rightly interpreted it. But we don’t no who the “elect” are, so that is why we evangelize to all in love, with meekness, and humility, before our God who graciously showed us the truth, so that by the external means of the Word being preached, the internal means of the Holy Spirit of God can take effect. This is why we preach. Romans 10:14 eludes to this. The Westboro people don’t do this at all. They don’t preach and spread the Word to enlarge God’s kingdom with his elect, they preach to try and shut doors and stop the flow of the elect in the kingdom. I am not a foremost expert on Calvinism, I really don’t like that term.(I believe Calvin rightly interprets the Word, but what I follow is the Words of Christ so I am a christian who agrees with Calvin. It is just a label.)They definitely are hyper-Calvinist, YIKES! But why is it so hard to lovingly share the Word of God with those whose sins are sending them to hell? And to Shirley let me say this, “you have no power but from that which is given to you from above”. You don’t blind eyes, stop ears or harden dark evil hearts as much as I or any other called-by-grace-child-of-God opens eyes, open ears and softens hearts of a dead, sinful person. Yes Pastor very strange doctrine.Brother Bryan Cooke

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  46. In evangelizing there is law and there is gospel. The law drives you to your knees, the gospel shows you the way out (this is how Calvin’s church delivered the message as well). These Westboro folks are definitely preaching the law, but you can’t say they aren’t also preaching the gospel when they make the call for you to repent. (And the gospel is always implied in the law even as it is delivered in the way this woman is speaking.) The fact is, as well, they consider their audience to need more the former than the latter. The gospel is not all of evangelism because people are vain and prideful and full of the spirit of the devil, and it is these people the Westboro folks consider to be their main audience. They consider the country to be so spiritually corrupt that a shock of the truth is what is needed, undiluted and direct. They can see that you all get enough of the softer gospel message, and it hasn’t gotten anywhere with you.All references to ‘you’ not to be taken personally, though I’m sure the Westboro folks want you to take it personally…

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  47. When did we separate the Word of God between “law” and “gospel.” the law is part of the Gospel.

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  48. David S-It seems like Christians who want to preach hell fire and brimstone like to talk about the law, while others who like to talk about the love of Christ and what He did for us like to talk about the gospel. I, like you, wonder when they become two separate entities.

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  49. maybe because Jesus fulfilled the law, and He is the Law….?

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  50. Mae-Of course He is. But you can’t separate who Jesus is,i.e. the law, from the fact that He is the Good News that the world needs to hear.

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  51. Yeah Mae your right. I am not saying , in response to my post, that we should not show them,the unregenerate,the Law. We should because it shows them how they have transgressed the Maker’s laws and that the breaken of them is deserving of punishment which is eternal death. It bends their knees to bow down to the Almighty and to say have mercy upon me a filthy,defiled sinner. And then the good news is applied, the Gospel. The atoning work of Christ on the cross for the remission of sins to those who repent and believe by faith that Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life. But what the difference in Westboro and us is, is that we do it out of love for the ones that we witness to because we know the truth of the wages of sin and we have been redeemed and should want all to be to. Even though I believe not all will, it should still be our desire to see that happen and let God be the one to say who is the elect and who is not! They are both essential, but together they are sufficient in bringing about the redemptive work of God.

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  52. Until you know of your condition – your state – under the law you won’t be able to value or understand or have a need for the gospel. Unless you realize you have poison in you like a venomous snake and that you can’t get the poison out of you you won’t have any need for God – for the work of Christ on the cross – which is the only thing that can remove the poison from you.This is basic biblical doctrine (i.e. what the Bible teaches).As long as you don’t know your own smell you won’t have any need for the gospel.As for the difference between law and gospel, it’s the difference between the covenant God made in the garden with Adam (do this and live) which Adam failed to fulfill and the Covenant of Grace God made with Abrahman’s spiritual children which are all who believe in Christ (believe on the Son and live). The difference between the law of works and the law of Christ is in the latter God gives freely that which He demands. So to say there is law in Gospel and Gospel in law is true if you have Christ. During the time of the law it was faith in the *coming* Messiah that effected salvation. There was gospel in that Old Testament law only in that it drove people to Christ, the coming Messiah, and it presented Him in types and shadows in the ceremonial laws. For us who have faith in the already-come Saviour anything we are able to *do* (repentance, faith) is a free grace from God and not our own *works*.But if you have yet to know the *power of the law* to condemn and to know that it is a curse for you as a fallen human being you will yet to be broken in your vanity, worldly pride, and rebellious self-will, i.e. you will yet to have seen your own nothingness and hence you won’t really even think you *need* a Saviour. Christ to you may be a *teacher* or a *Great Master* or whatever, but not a Saviour.The law plays a foundational role in evangelizing. It is what brings a person to the point where they realize they *need* Jesus and His work on the cross.And again: when this Westboro woman is telling you to *repent* she is addressing you as someone who is not yet in the flames of hell. Jesus’ first commands were repent, for the Kingdom of God is at hand. So you are just not seeing the gospel in her evangelizing through the noise of her condemnation and preaching of the law, but it is there. And you have to also realize that a Christian who understands the law and the gospel is not worried about how their audience react. They don’t play games with vain, fallen humans and treat you like you’re children, which is how most mainstream churches treat you, even so-called conservative ones. She is showing more love towards you by not treating you as a child than evangelists who are more concerned with not *upsetting* you.

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  53. J. Smith-It is very difficult to see the “love” through the venom.

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  54. Your own venom? Because that is what should concern you. And yes, Christine, you have original sin. Really. Compare yourself to God to see yourself, not to other human beings; and be grateful to any Christian who gives you the Word of God to the degree that it upsets you. It’s a tremendous gift.

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  55. Having said all the above I’m referring to the Westboro interview posted on this site. I’ve never seen them on a street corner or at a military funeral. I don’t know what all their signs say even. I’d have to be present to see what they are doing regarding the Word of God because the media obviosuly won’t and can’t show it all but will show what shocks their audience the most.My first comment which is under the post that has the first part of this interview gives my take on their extreme and crazy nature. I won’t repeat it here.

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  56. J. Smith,Unless she preaches the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for the remission and rescue and deliverance from sin – she has not preached the Gospel (good news). Jesus is the ultimate fulfillment of the law – and she needs to have a forward looking view rather than a backward look that only confuses people. Her job is not blind eyes and harden hearts as she suggested – her job is to evangelize the lost with the power of God unto salvation.The preaching of the law is insufficient to save — and she needs to preach the Gospel!1 Corinthians 15:3-4Josh Buice

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  57. J. Smith-No, I was not referring to my own venom. And thank you so much for reminding me that I am a sinner. I had no idea. I just thought that God saved me because I am a really fun girl! Are you kidding me? I realize more and more everyday just how debase and rotten I really am. I just thank God that He loved me enough to send His son to die on a cross for me so that I wouldn’t have to go to hell! Amen! You are absolutely right that I am a sinner. A sinner saved by grace! Are you?

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  58. I think it’s a mistake in the modern church that the law now has no value because “Jesus fulfilled the law.” I hear that all the time. Christians live as if they have only a New Testament. The only value the Old Testament has for some is prophetic.I think there is merit to the charge that the modern church does not teach the whole council of God.And, when did we get the idea that the “law” is for hell fire and brimstone, while the Gospel is love. I see great love in the Passover. There are parts of the law I keep because it makes me a better father. Should we Christians be so quick do ignore something God gave us?The Old Testament does more than point to sin. Respectfully, I think to view the Old Testament only as something that convicts misses the richness of the larger portion of God’s Word.

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  59. If we do not rightly use the law in our church’s, it kind of gives church’s like Westboro free reign to do what they want with it.Because people have not been taught the Old Testament, they assume Westboro is telling them the truth about what’s there! Not only is Westboro misrepresenting the New Testament, they are misrepresenting the Old Testament.

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  60. Cooke – I will have to disagree with part of your earlier comment: “let God be the one to say who is the elect and who is not!”. The thing to remember here is that salvation is contingent upon faith/belief in Jesus Christ, his resurrection, and the blood he shed on Calvary. God does not choose who will be saved and who is not saved unless belief in Christ takes place. The belief part is man’s responsibility (using his intellect); the offer of salvation, drawing, and the grace is God’s!! God doesn’t make us believe, he just blesses the fruits of our work in sharing the Gospel to the lost. Salvation is a marriage between the will of man through the knowledge of the Bible versus the Grace of God. Jesus died for all persons on the earth (John 3:16). God made the plan of salvation for all mankind, it is up to us to believe and accept the plan through Jesus Christ and his blood once the Gospel is shared (that is the Christian’s responsibility)!!! Please remember to to keep both sides of salvation (God and man) in balance when discussing the Gospel (it is not just God selecting/choosing his elect). We become his elect as a result of belief in Christ, not the other way around.I agree that this group of persons at Westboro are incorrect in their application of the Gospel. (I doubt at this point whether they really know what the Gospel is). We are not to share hate but the Love of God through his Son. That is the True Gospel. I pray for a change of heart at Westboro……..humbly clarifying……..Brian

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  61. Brian – I too will have to disagree with your earlier comment. But I don’t think this is the time and correct forum for us to discuss the Sovereignty of God in Salvation. So if you would like to continue this discussion in email then I would be happy to do that. My email address is bkcooke@blomand.net. So let’s get together and reason the Word of God as two christian brothers should. In the Love of Christ, God Bless.

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  62. As a Reformed Baptist, I have no problem saying that WBC are flaming hyper-Calvinists, and (eerily) consistent with that theological position. A number of points are worthy of note:1. No one knows has perfect and untouchable knowledge of who the elect are, therefore we preach to dying men and women to other dying men and women2. True evangelism is not brow-beating someone with just the knowledge of their sin – but also pointing to Christ and His work on the Cross – a message ABSENT from WBC’s non-gospel.

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  63. I think David S. is exactly right. Jesus Christ’s ministry was based on the OT. Paul wasn’t quoting other apostles in his work — he was quoting the OT.The OT is a message of peace and love for God’s people. The framework God established through Abraham was not a physical lineage, but a spiritual heritage of righteousness through belief.Abraham was far from perfect, but his faith in God was reckoned unto him as righteousness. The physical form of Christ was in lineage aligned with Abraham, but the spirit was all God… the same Christ that died for us, rose again, and the Holy Spirit that lives with us and dwells among us is the spiritual heritage of Abraham’s righteousness… it is only through the spiritual heritage of God we can receive salvation.Sad that these Westboro folks are toting signs in ignorance of the pure love that God gave us on Calvary… and I hope they aren’t too surprised to see some of us poor, lost, heart-hearted sinners in Glory one day. I hope God sees fit to change their hearts so they can be with us there.

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